Yesterday was a big day for the firearm owning community. Unfortunately GOSA was denied the privilege to present their argument to the Constitutional Court. This was fortunately not a major setback, but the reasons as to why are very much misunderstood by many. Therefore I present below the analysis of a very highly qualified legal professional, who wishes to remain anonymous, regarding why yesterday was indeed a very good day for Gun Owners SA. They can hold their heads high and be proud of what they achieved. The rest of the battle, however, begins now.
It is quite clear to me that there is a great deal of misconception as to what GOSA’s game plan was in bringing its application. Let me try to clarify.
As some of you are probably aware, GOSA is of the view that relicensing as a principle is completely unworkable, for various reasons, including the demands it places upon the CFR. GOSA therefore has long been of the view that that issue needs to be properly addressed at various levels.
While I do not propose to go into details here, the layman needs to understand that the current case before the Constitutional Court is not about relicensing as a general principle, but rather a more narrow issue dealing with specific aspects relating to the way the concept of relicensing has been given effect to and in particular the idea that once somebody has missed the particular date for applying for relicensing, they are then in effect “once and for ever” criminalised and have no way of bringing themselves within the law again.
That said, the Constitutional Court has a history of on occasion dealing with and pronouncing on broader issues than the actual issues before it. This was GOSA’s fear in the current matter, viz. that the Constitutional Court could possibly deal with relicensing in general terms and make a favourable statement in that regard, with the effect that that would then finally shut the door on any potential legal challenge which GOSA might wish to bring in the future against relicensing as a general principle. GOSA’s real challenge was therefore how to prevent that, even though it was difficult to gauge the likelihood of the Constitutional Court going down that avenue.
During the consultation with senior counsel, GOSA was advised that there was a risk that the Constitutional Court would refuse to hear the GOSA application, either because it was out of time (the Constitutional Court would, potentially amongst other things, say to GOSA “Where were you in the original matter when it was heard before Judge Tolmay?”) or because the Constitutional Court would take the view that the issues that GOSA was trying to raise were different to the issues before the Constitutional Court (the Constitutional Court would say to GOSA “Go start your debate around this issue in the lower courts and we will deal with it when it reaches us”). These risks were known and understood and assumed; nevertheless, GOSA was of the view that the risk of the Constitutional Court pronouncing more broadly on the concept of relicensing as a whole was such that it was nevertheless not a matter of “understanding and assuming the risk that the Constitutional Court would knock GOSA out” but rather a matter of “having no choice but to proceed given the risk that the Constitutional Court could potentially otherwise deal with the principle of relicensing generally and thereby finally shut the door entirely on any challenge to the general principle of relicensing”.
GOSA was always aware that the probabilities of the Constitutional Court entertaining a debate about the constitutional validity of the general principle of relicensing at this stage of the game, was at best, slim. Nevertheless, given the need to avoid a final pronouncement by the Constitutional Court on relicensing as a whole, it was decided to proceed to attack the principle of relicensing in general terms so as to get the issue before the court in some form or another.
A reading of the dismissal of the Constitutional Court’s application by GOSA will make clear that the Constitutional Court is of the view that the issue raised by GOSA in its papers is not currently before the Constitutional Court. What this means in effect is that GOSA has fully succeeded in its primary objective, which is to prevent a situation in which the Constitutional Court pronounces generally on the principle of relicensing and thereby fully and finally shuts the door against any future challenge in that regard; in effect, GOSA has succeeded without even having had to put argument before the Constitutional Court.
In summary therefore, GOSA has succeeded in ensuring that it is able at a future date to challenge the entire concept of relicensing as such as being unconstitutional. That was the key objective and that has been achieved.
To be clear, I do not hold a candle for GOSA; I am not even a member of GOSA. I simply have insight into the matter and how GOSA chose to approach it.
PS. The Constitutional Court has stated that (a) The application was brought out of time without any adequate explanation for the delay and (b) sought to introduce relief beyond the scope of the proceedings on record.
It is (b) that is important for the purposes of the current discussion. By raising the question of relicensing in general, GOSA placed the Constitutional Court in a position where it had to decide whether or not to deal with the general principle of relicensing. In effect the Constitutional Court has said that the general principle of relicensing is not currently before it; in other words, it is not something that is being dealt with at this point in time.
That means that the debate about relicensing in general is capable of being had at a later point in time. That is the key objective that GOSA set out to achieve, although admittedly it would very much have liked to have been able to ventilate and challenge the very concept of relicensing, but that was always known to be a long shot. Someone said that GOSA achieved silver but not gold. I would style it differently by saying that GOSA got the cake but it missed the cherry on top.
Edited by Gideon Joubert, with permission of the original author
Gideon is owner and editor of Paratus
Stevin
•7 years ago
Let’s also not forget how GOSA Ripped apart GFSA’s submissions to the court, in their delayed submission.
Peter Moss
•7 years ago
And who knows about it? Does anyone actually know why that is important? Is it going to concern anyone. If nobody knows it never happened and it had absolutely no impact. Wasted effort.
Zoo Keeper
•7 years ago
All parties avoided the re-licensing as something to be considered, coupled with the dismissal order, GOSA should still able to go for the main problem
David Smith
•7 years ago
Big up to GOSA and all those that took time out of their lives to be there on our behalf…
I also hope that, besides that … hopefully a precedent has been set that GFSA will never again be given free reign in court to try and impose their dim-witted narrow utopian view of the world on all law abiding citizens through the dissemination of their self-serving, fabricated “research”. One day we WILL nail them for perjury.
Peter Moss
•7 years ago
Why on earth would GFSA even blink an eye? Which court knows about this? Was GFSA rejected? Was a legal statement made? Was a public statement made.
We will never nail them for anything and GFSA will long have won if we cannot learn how to fight a propaganda organisation. Thus far despite intensive training to a number of people nobody knows and prefers to follow the footsteps of every failed country, simply because our leaders refuse to think.
Willie Laing
•7 years ago
The big question is: When is the court date of this new action that GOSA proposes to bring? If you want people to take you serious then you have no other option but to make good on your promises.
You also state that “Unfortunately GOSA was denied the privilege to present their argument to the Constitutional Court”. How many days after the closing date did GOSA submit their application? The court did not deny GOSA the privilege – GOSA did not follow the rules! There is a major difference between the two.
Gideon you state that you are not a member of GOSA but you are certainly giving them a lot of exposure. Just remember that there are other associations in South Africa that do just as much if not more.
gunservant85
•7 years ago
I never stated I am not a member of GOSA. I am indeed. I do believe the analysis more than answers your questions. There is no “closing date” – the court assesses the merits of every submission and decides whether or not it will hear it. Regarding the new court date of the further action – there are a few things that need to happen before then. Such as the SAPS responding to the PAIA request sent to them. Which may result in its own court case before the rest continues. There are indeed other associations, but I am hard pressed to admit that they do “more” than GOSA does.
PS. I am not the author of the above analysis. I merely edited it.
Phillip
•7 years ago
Willie, ek gaan maar in Afrikaans antwoord.
Ek dink daar is dalk so paar goed wat jy nie verstaan nie, dalk is jy nie in die industrie nie, dis verstaanbaar.
Jy kan nie vra wat die hofdatum is, vir toekomstige litigasie, waarvan die basis nou eers gelê is nie. Dis eenvoudig nie moontlik nie, daar is ‘n aantal stappe wat dit moet voorafgaan. Gister se saak in die KH (waarvoor ons as vuurwapeneienaars almal maar vir SAJWV kan dankie sê) het ‘n ander risiko gehad wat GOSA wou aanspreek. Of hulle toegelaat was of nie, daardie spesifieke risiko was aangespreek bloot deur aansoek in te dien. Die groter kwessie wat GOSA wou bereik het nie nou gebeur nie, en ek wonder of dit sou gebeur het al was GOSA ook toegelaat. Gister se saak lê egter die basis vir die toekomstige litigasie en kan gesien word as ‘n noodsaaklike euwel in die proses. Was dit perfek uitgevoer deur GOSA? Ek dink nie so nie. Ek weet hoe dit vir Jan Publiek moet lyk. Vir die regsgeleerdes wat deel was van die proses is dit duidelik hoekom dit so gedoen is, en is die foute in ander sake ook duidelik, ons weet hoe die dinge werk. Gaan lees bietjie GOSA se aansoek (soos gesteun deur Paul Oxley se eedsverklaring) en dit sal dalk vir jou duideliker word.
Jou oënskynlike aanval op die webbladeienaar (Gideon Joubert) is egter besig om jou so bietjie in die verleentheid te spaar. Dan gaan jy verder en vergat jou naam deur internetspeurder te speel en op Wikipedia te gaan kyk of Gideon lid is van GOSA. Die punt wat jy mis is dat Gideon nie hierdie artikel geskryf het nie. Hy was ook nog nooit omsigtig met die feit dat hy lid van GOSA is nie, tot die teendeel dis redelike algemene kennis.
Uit die aard van die saak is kritiek welkom. Maar om kritiek te lewer want jy kan, sonder om jou feite na te gaan, is ‘n klap in die gesig van almal in die vuurwapenbedryf, of dit nou die geleentheidskut of die uitvoerende komitee van ‘n burgerregte-organisasie is.
Spikes
•7 years ago
Dankie Phillip vir die duidelike uiteensetting van ‘n pad vorentoe.
Zoo Keeper
•7 years ago
Willie
A more comprehensive response will be issued shortly.
What you need to understand is that the ConCourt has a habit of going out of its lane. All the parties before the court had accepted re-licencing as a concept. It had to be made abundantly clear to the court that this was not accepted by everybody, and the decision issued by the ConCourt must not deal with it. this was not a suicide mission as some seem to think.
Peter Moss
•7 years ago
GOSA made the effort while other organisations have collectively done nothing of any value from the day the FCA was announced. Most can be said to have contributed to the success of the FCA by indoctrinating members in to acceptance of defeat and collaboration with the SAPS even doing their advertising for them.
I am not defending GOSA and organisation that lost its way due to officials giving up hope and not seeing instant success. Official who stupidly thought other organisations knew best when it was the exact opposite. No organisation had a better grounding than GOSA, no organisation had better knowledge, first-hand experience or the only worthwhile training any firearm owner has ever had in this country in winning this fight.
All forgotten, just ask any firearm official you like how they intend to win this fight and what does a win mean to them. Post the response as a blog I am sure Gedeon would love to post it and I am willing to bet you cannot get a response. People without a clear vision of victory or a path simply cannot win this fight.
BTW a faster more efficient FCA is not under any circumstances a victory it is COLLABORATION. If the FCCA is going to fail help it fail is a better plan. What are firearm organisation officials doing? Helping government.
Peter Moss
•7 years ago
I have no idea of what you mean by “as much if not more” but I can attest that collectively main stream organisations with the exceptions of GOSA and BGOSA have not even created a wisp of smoke in opposition to the FCA. A faster more efficient FCA is not needed. Preaching compliance instead of opposition is fighting your own and destroying them. Advertising for the SAPS is collaboration no matter how you look at it. Not fighting for members is selling them out and acceptance of the FCA is a complete sell-out. We all know and agree the evidence shows the FCA to be a completely useless law.
What would have happened to a ANC official who decided to help passed book laws work better and not efficiently. Would they be praised for doing something?
Willie Laing
•7 years ago
Gideon, according to Wikipedia you are a member of the Executive Committee of GOSA
The Executive Committee is currently composed of:
Paul Oxley (Sitting Chairperson)
Bryan Mennie
Wouter De Waal
Gideon Joubert
Aziza De Villers
Craig Pederson
Brendon
•7 years ago
Dude. Try comprehending what you are reading.
You are making an fool of yourself.
Rick Afonso
•7 years ago
Have you bothered reading the article correctly – Gideon never claimed he wasn’t a member of GOSA, he is. He explained that he was editing a letter written by a non GOSA member.
Read properly – you are making your name GAT!
Wikus Erasmus
•7 years ago
Willie. Ek stel voor en bedaar asseblief. Lees kalm en kom weer terug. Hierdie aggresiewe “ons teen hulle” ding wat jy hier aankweek help jou en ons as vuurwapeneienaars glad nie.
Die brief is van ‘n non-GOSA lid. Gideon het dit nie geskryf nie. Hy is redakteer.
Ricky
•7 years ago
Willie. Read it again.. Carefully… And then retry…
G.
•7 years ago
Willie are you a GOSA member or are you one of those clingers hoping that someone else will do the heavy lifting for you?
Peter Moss
•7 years ago
When JZ was summoned to court to answer some 700 charges his lawyer made every legal move available. When the inevitable day arrived JZ was nowhere to be seen in or outside the court. What was outside was 10,000 people protesting that he had been summoned to court.
You see like GFSA well knows when you want something done there is only one way to get it done. Use a big enough lever. Now if the con-court had said no to GFSA would GFSA have said nothing we can do sorry …… of would GFSA have had an anser that made it argument a lot more forceful. GFSA can put 10,000 outside the court and the court knows that. GOSA could not put one person outside that court because in this country firearm owners are sports shooters and hunters who simply could not care if they go shooting or fishing. GFSA supporters are there to save lives, their own life in particular. Firearm owners are provably willing to sacrifice the safety of our families and loved ones because government will keep them safe. You cannot fight that difference with the proven failed ideas firearm organisation have or win in the GOVERNMENTS court.
Unless firearm owners see the necessity of having a firearm in this crime ravaged country as essential to life and survival of themselves and family and are willing to get off their bums to protest this fight is lost. There is no hope of winning any other way. Bring me the person who claims to know a better or a different way to winning and explain it as I have done and can expand down to the finest detail. Give me the name of such a person. When you cannot answer ask yourself why have firearm organisations not worked this out? What is wrong with them?
Marcelle Joubert
•7 years ago
Some people will just never get it! 😶
Peter Moss
•7 years ago
If you want something done you have to do it yourself and find other like minded people who value what you do. If our lives and that of our family can be sacrificed as we see happening to farmers who are at the coal-face and are to apathetic to help….. But our organisations are at fault. Instead of leading the charge they are busy negotiating our defeat. Preaching compliance is acceptance of defeat. Fighting only for compliance and to improve efficiency is acceptance of defeat. Organisations that pretend to be helping firearm owners by helping speed up the process are interested only in profits. They are not who you want fighting for your life or your future.